Comments on Amy Schwab @ Work: Stupid Human Tricks and System-antics

Amy,We made be speaking about systems in different...

2008-07-23T10:10:00.000-07:00

Amy,
We made be speaking about systems in different terms. Human systems are outside the domain of interest to Systems Engineering in the general way you suggest. Humans are certainly part of the system and interact in non-linear ways at times.
I'd say non-trivial systems example as "human systems,” and the acceptance of these systems as they are is wise advice. But there are a myriad of

Sometimes systems are not working as they were des...

2008-07-23T09:28:00.000-07:00

Sometimes systems are not working as they were designed and need 'fixing'. Sometimes their operations include unintended consequences that, if we try to fix them, only generate additional unintended consequences or, worse yet, no effect at all (other than distract us from getting the 'real' work done).

As the old Serenity prayer says:
God grant me the serenity to accept the

Amy,This may be the basis of the differences - I'm...

2008-07-23T06:58:00.000-07:00

Amy,
This may be the basis of the differences - I'm slowly discovering - between our world views.
When Gall describes failures of systems, some failures were avoidable, some were not. Some failures were due to a lack of understanding, which is now in place. Others were due to poor management, poor skills, or simply uninformed choices.
I see Gall and similar authors as "conversation

Glen,Solutions to what? Systems perform certain an...

2008-07-22T23:11:00.000-07:00

Glen,
Solutions to what?

Systems perform certain antics - if those are problems, then it can lead into all sorts of complications and complexity. If, instead, one looks at those as features and acknowledges them as such, and adapts given those features, there is no need to solve any problems. This is one of the ways we mean "work the system so the system can work".

I was

Amy,What I find troubling about Gall, after reread...

2008-07-22T20:29:00.000-07:00

Amy,
What I find troubling about Gall, after rereading this week. He provides NO suggested solutions.

Yes, Glen, Systemantics is a great resource. It's...

2008-07-21T23:26:00.000-07:00

Yes, Glen, Systemantics is a great resource. It's been quite a number of years since I read this classic - it's part of the bibliography of every Mastering Projects Workshop and the list of references in "The Blind Men and the Elephant: Mastering Project Work".

Amy,John Gall's book "The Systems Bible," is a goo...

2008-07-21T22:17:00.000-07:00

Amy,
John Gall's book "The Systems Bible," is a good place to look for advice on the interactons between humans and systems.
John's an MIT system's theorist with much to say about how systems are built, their interactions with their creators, and the never ending story of human's attempts to get the created systems to perform as designed.
But in the end the theory of systems needs